Royals/del Sol Comparison

Discussion in 'Development Academy' started by Desert Hound, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Well-Known Member

    del Sol seems to be having some issues. They seem to be very thin on their benches be it DPL or GA.

    It also seems like their very youngest age groups are struggling. It seems at the younger ages, parents opted for Royals and Rising. I think Royals depth over time starts to pay off. I also think going forward, del Sol in that area is the 3rd choice, behind Royals and Rising, when it comes time to look to place your kid at the u13 level.

    Royals is performing better at the GA level. At the DPL level Royals is also better. del Sol is struggling in DPL.

    GA records


    Royals 6-0-1
    GF/GA 16/4

    del Sol 0-5-0
    GF/GA 0/18

    Royals 6-0-1
    GF/GA 26/4

    del Sol 4-3-0
    GF/GA 18/10

    Royals 3-4-0
    GF/GA 11/10

    del Sol 5-1-1
    GF/GA 21/8

    Royals 5-0-2
    GF/GA 17/4

    del Sol 5-0-2
    GF/GA 28/5

    Royals 7-0-0
    GF/GA 35/4

    del Sol 3-3-0
    GF/GA 8/13

    Royals 5-2-0
    GF/GA 21/9

    del Sol 5-0-0
    GF/GA 16/5

    Total Record Across Age Groups
    Royals 32-6-4
    GF/GA 126/35

    del Sol 22-12-3
    GF/GA 91/59

    DPL Records


    Royals 4-1-1
    GF/GA 16/4

    del Sol

    They don't have a team at this age group for some reason it seems.

    Royals 2-6-0
    GF/GA 13/22

    del Sol 0-6-1
    GF/GA 4/24

    Royals 2-4-1
    GF/GA 8/14

    del Sol 0-7-0
    GF/GA 3/42

    Royals 3-4-0
    GF/GA 13/19

    del Sol 2-4-0
    GF/GA 5/22

    Royals 5-2-1
    GF/GA 15/11

    del Sol 1-7-0
    GF/GA 6/28

    Royals 3-5-0
    GF/GA 14/22

    del Sol 2-3-2
    GF/GA 7/18

    Total Record Across Age Groups
    Royals 19-22-3
    GF/GA 79/92

    del Sol 5-27-3
    GF/GA 25/134
  2. VegasParent

    VegasParent New Member

    Having just played the the 06 GA teams this past weekend, I would say that del Sol is the better team at this age group. Royals had 2 players from Vegas start and play the entire game so it makes me wonder if they have depth issues.
  3. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Well-Known Member

    Well if we go by record at 06, then you are certainly correct. del Sol at that age group has played better.

    Royals brings down a Vegas player off and on to some teams. Some kind of deal with the club up there.
  4. Digital5

    Digital5 Active Member

    Certainly struggling at U13/U14. The U14s will get better with time, still learning the "always on the attack" style of play. Count on that team improving over time. It's a hard transition from the style they played just a year ago. Those parents have to be patient, we will see if they are and if they can endure some losses. DS will not change up style of play just to win a game. They are vulnerable in this regard but will stick to their guns.

    The U13s are a concern, I think. Not an age group that they normally play in letter leagues. They do a better job of recruiting into the outyears. They will be challenged.

    The expectation for the U17s were not very high this year. They are playing better than expected and have at least a competitive team. We will see how many girls play at the next level.

    U15, U16, U18/19s for both clubs are playing well. The U15 royals team is better than their record. For both, their college focus age groups are doing well, which is great to see.

    DPL wise, Del Sol is a disaster and may certainly hurt their brand. Shows their lack of depth. Could be a problem in the future. They always seem to figure it out and are able to recruit in the older age groups. If I was looking at a club for development, DS wouldn't be my first choice. If I was looking at a club for my player to play with and against top talent coached by proven coaches, DS would be a good choice. Depends on what market you are going after.
  5. This weekend's DPL results, since the clubs played each other.
    U13-no game since DelSol does not have a team
    U14 RSL 3-0
    U15 RSL 6-0
    U16 DelSol 1-0
    U17 RSL 3-0
    U18/19 DelSol 2-1
  6. VegasParent

    VegasParent New Member

    I'm just going by the eye test. Del Sol looked more athletic and moved the ball better. However, we played Royals in a windstorm so that could have affected their play.
  7. Sweeper

    Sweeper Active Member

    I agree with Desert Hound.

    Five years ago, SC Del Sol was the powerhouse on the girls side. They were a factory of players with depth. Each age group had 3-4 teams and all were solid. The 03 age group at Del Sol was part of this powerhouse.

    Currently, DS has a solid 03 team (from their powerhouse days), a strong 05 team and fairly strong 06 team. But like Desert Hound said, there is No Depth! There is only 13-14 players on the GA teams for 05 and 06. The DPL teams struggle. In my opinion, DS focused too much on DA and then DA crumbled.

    RSL and Rising are now becoming the factories of players that Del Sol once was.
  8. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Active Member

    From the perspective of college coaches or a parent of a top player, team depth is not a high priority. A U15-19 player would rather have as much match time as possible. College coaches want to see specific players on the pitch. They could care less that a club has 3-4 teams per age group.
  9. Certainly from a parent/player it is great to have a team with 13 people on it. You get tons of playing time. The issue becomes club viability when you only have 1 or 2 small teams at an age group. It will certainly drive costs up without the DA supplement, when you have such a small player pool.
    Sweeper likes this.
  10. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Active Member

    Where the club receives its revenue will drive the club's financial success and viability. Total number of players in both its competitive and recreational programs, summer and skills camps, etc. all factor in.
  11. calmdown

    calmdown Member

    Agree on DPL. Del Sol have hardly any depth. But then they haven’t merged with 5 or so Clubs, so maybe that is to be expected.

    The 2 Clubs look pretty comparable to me on the GA side. I am not sure Del Sol even had an 08 team last year, so their U13 GA team is a bit of an anomaly. I have heard the 08 player pool is not that deep valley wide so maybe a concern going forward.

    Del Sol’s U14 team is closer than it looks to the Royals U14. Royals have an exceptional 09 that is a mega impact player. Royals have a deeper bench, and can also pull from 08s.

    U15+ they seem pretty comparable on the GA side (just looking at game records listed above)

    More worryingly, Del Sol do not seem to have an 09 team listed in any of the AZ Advanced Leagues.
    Desert Hound likes this.
  12. Digital5

    Digital5 Active Member

    Ask most parents that have kids that play on top teams what their preference is and they will likely reply smaller roster is the way to do. When healthy, small rosters are always better. Ask those same parents the roster question where there are injuries, and they will complain that rosters are too small. Like @SoccerDadAZ says, college coaches do not care about roster size. Parents get angry when their player doesn't play, just the way it goes.

    The club viability issue, on the surface anyway, can be cause for concern for the health of the club. We have no idea (at least I don't), how DS drives revenue. They seem to be perfectly happy to have small rosters for their GA teams, to the point where they are fine with players leaving to play on ECNL/GA first teams. Those players could have been offered, but weren't. Have no idea why and many on here can speculate away.

    This weekend saw NM girls play for two teams. Looks like the 06 team was short a few players - don't know why. They will also move girls around the age groups to fill holes in rosters due to injuries or if more depth is needed in what they consider a crucial game (cup series, etc). A lot of times girls play up for just development's sake. It's just what they do.
  13. Digital5

    Digital5 Active Member

    If the DA was still around, there wouldn't be an 08 team. This is a GA/ECNL thing and puts a spin on how DS normally operates. Will be interesting.

    The Royals 06s have closed the gap a bit on DS. Their next matchup will be fun to watch if both teams are healthy.
  14. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Well-Known Member

    That is part of what I was referring to.

    Depth. It matters.

    Yes it is great to get a ton of minutes. And yes colleges recruit players and not teams.

    But if you have a good player and can get good minutes on a team with other very good players, that likely benefits you more vs getting minutes and practice with lesser players.

    Back to depth. That is not a good sign that del Sol has zero U12 teams in APL, State 1 or State 2 at U12. I just looked at Open League. They don't show up until 2nd division, and that is the only team they have in Open League.

    Rising and Royals have a ton of teams in Advanced leagues. Arsenal has a couple. del Sol will have a tough time putting together a good GA team next year for that age group. Will they not offer a DPL for that age group (u13 next year) like they have done this year?

    I just looked at the U13 age group in Advanced Leagues. del Sol doesn't have a team in that age group either. When I look at Open league, there is a team in last place of division 1. That I guess answers why they don't currently carry at U13 DPL team.

    Looking at U11. Just 1 team that is 2nd to last in the 2nd division. No other teams at that age group.

    So del Sol doesn't have much of a player pool to pull least as it relates to the girls side.

    In years past del Sol fed off clubs like Blackhawks/Rising, CCV, Legacy, etc to get their players. With Royals, Rising and Arsenal offering options, there is much less incentive to go to del Sol. Royals and Rising have big player pools. Arsenal to a lesser extent.

    I think as time goes on, on the girls side del Sol is going to struggle compared to the other big 3 in the Valley. It is going to be hard for them to put up good GA teams as those teams form at U13. It seems it will be harder for them to put up good DPL teams at the U13 age group.
    soccerallthetime likes this.
  15. calmdown

    calmdown Member

    Agree. Del Sol have not done a great job (if anything at all), at pivoting from being 1 of 2 Elite teams in the Valley, to now being 1 of 4.
    From what I have seen, they have never really built up teams from the Academy ages on the girls side. Rising and Arsenal have always had to do that, and now those kids get to choose to stay in those clubs playing letter league soccer, versus 3 yrs ago having to move to Del Sol/Sereno to play elite level.
    RSL countered the problem (of now being 1 of 4) with the merging of Sereno /Legacy /Valparaiso /Yuma /Tucson and with other affiliations in NV/El Paso.
    Desert Hound likes this.
  16. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Well-Known Member

    I also think that lack of depth will hurt in this manner as well.

    Parents of younger kids play in the leagues (Open). They pay attention to what clubs have the best teams. Perception.

    If del Sol has few teams and those teams are not in the top division, that will also hurt recruitment.

    U11. Top division (Open) (no Advanced League this age) it is PRFC, RSL, Arsenal. 2nd Division (where del Sol shows up) those 3 clubs have teams that are better in the standings that del Sol. Perception? Get your kid onto one of those 3 clubs first.

    U12. del Sol isnt even in the Advanced leagues. Advantage (HUGE) to Royals, Rising, Arsenal.

    Now people will point out coaches, etc are vitally important. I fully agree. However I am just saying what parents are looking at mainly when it comes time to play GA/ECNL, etc. Clubs that are outperforming del Sol in the standings in Open/Advanced league will be on the radar more. Parents and kids want to go to what they perceive is the good clubs.
  17. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Well-Known Member

    That is exactly what has happened and what their current problem is.
    Digital5 likes this.
  18. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Active Member

    Only 4 clubs on the girls side offers a team at the highest levels (GA/ECNL), starting at U13. The top players on those U12 teams will vie for a roster spot on one of those teams. Royals, Rising, Arsenal will get their share of the top players and so will Del Sol. Only so many spots to go around and the top players want to play at the highest level and for the coaches that takes them to the next level.

    Depth does not matter at the top levels for development. Whether you train with 14 or 20 very good players, you will develop and improve. However, depth will matter for playing minutes.
  19. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Well-Known Member

    They will field teams.

    They will be in line for the top players, unless they happen to have one internally.
  20. tjinaz

    tjinaz Active Member

    Don't know that origin matters either. At that level there I don't see any club loyalty either from the player or the club. Kid that has been with the club for year will be cut for a better player or if a parent/kid wants to go to a new team for ... better coach.. better team... less drive.. less cost. They will.
    SoccerDadAZ likes this.

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