Player development or recruiting???

Discussion in 'Arizona Scene' started by soccerallthetime, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Yes! You are correct. 100% agree.
  2. AZ Soccer Family

    AZ Soccer Family New Member

    Great comment! Parents think because they are paying fees to play that the club and coach are responsible for development. The best players consistently have a soccer ball with them. Players need to develop skills on their own. Top players are running and training daily. If a parent is waiting for a coach to get their player in shape and develop key skills the player will struggle. Top teams practice 4 times a week. 8 hours of team practice is not enough to be a top player. Any sport as a player ages become a grind. The amount of work top players put in is really the separation between players who struggle with getting playing time and players a coach can't take off the field. Parents need to be realistic. The grind is not for everyone.
    GKeeper, singh, Sweeper and 4 others like this.
  3. singh

    singh Member

    As Malcolm Gladwell reminded us in "outliers", 10,000 hours are needed to be the best
  4. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    I agree with most of what you have to say. It is however up to the coach to teach proper technique, proper positioning, and to develop the players mentally and physically. I do agree that players need to work on their game outside of practice. However, if they are taught the wrong things by their coach, they will then practice doing things wrong hindering their development as a player. If you have a parent that does not have any soccer background, this can be an issue. Practice does not make perfect, proper practice makes perfect.
  5. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    I would disagree. Hours should not be the focus. What should be the focus is what a person does during a specific timeframe. What one person does in one hour can be totally different compared to what another person does in an hour. There needs to be a purpose to what someone does. I would also contend that training for more days or longer hours isn't necessary a good thing either. Overtraining can actually make you worse! Just like anything else, there needs to be time for recovery. People tend to overlook recovery as a necessary part of training. Overtraining will hurt performance and make you prone to chronic injuries. There are some very good teams around the country that only train twice a week.
    Hotspur likes this.
  6. Not a Futballer

    Not a Futballer New Member

    Individual development at the club level, in my opinion, is impacted by the following:

    - Does the club have a technical and tactical training curriculum?
    - Do the coaches at the club follow the curriculum? Does the 2nd team coach follow the same curriculum as the top teams coach so that the kid on the 2nd team has a real chance of promotion? It will hurt a kid on the 2nd team trying to make the 1st team if their 2nd team coach isn't giving them the skills to play for the 1st team coach. Do they run appropriate drills that build on concepts or do they focus on one aspect of the game each week depending on how the team did in their game that weekend?
    - Are there enough "talented" (depending on the level of the team) players in practice to perform the drill at a certain pace and intelligence? If even 2 or 3 kids slow the drill down, development suffers for everyone. Speed of play and how quickly a decision is made and executed is a huge separator between kids at different levels. This is probably what hurts a 2nd team player trying to make the 1st team within a club the most. A fringe 1st team player training 6-8 hours a week with a handful of kids who slow the drill down will slow the game down and make it harder for the kid to ever play fast enough.

    I agree on top kids. You run into them everywhere there's a soccer ball.

    If the club, and/or coach and/or team relative to skill all work in a cohesive manner, kids will develop in the club environment. If any of the 3 points above are off, kids will have a harder time developing. Top kids tend to do more outside the club and aren't as reliant on those conditions to develop and will often find the right conditions to meet their needs over time as long as Mom and Dad stay out of the way and let it happen.
    Robert, Digital5 and GKdad like this.
  7. AZsoccefan

    AZsoccefan Member

    Great Post! I hope you are a DOC or are a club board member somewhere because every club should stress this and remind coaches, parents and administrators of this.
    Robert likes this.
  8. singh

    singh Member

    I see what you are saying, I wasn't being specific. I was just referring to a line in outliers where the author says that to be the best in your craft (whether it be sports or piano or whatever) it typically takes 10,000 hours over a lifetime to achieve that level. That includes exercise, classroom work etc. Just a point to highlight that the more time you spend on your craft the better you will be.
  9. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Active Member

    I would be very interested to know which high-level teams in the country that only train twice a week.
  10. Hotspur

    Hotspur New Member

    The recruiting of players is out of control. Additionally, clubs whose coaches have taken over HS programs are using it as leverage to get more kids to their clubs. It used to be done quietly. Now, they are overtly recruiting for their own clubs stating if you want to play high school, you’ll need to come play at our club. I have also seen social media posts from schools’ soccer programs recruiting directly for the coach’s club teams. How is this even allowed? Many clubs are placing a much higher value on winning/recruiting than development. Don’t listen to what they say. Watch what they do. Club first-Player second is our current model.
    Stopthebs and GKdad like this.
  11. tjinaz

    tjinaz Active Member

    This is how Club Baseball has been run for at least a decade and I imagine it was difficult at first but is now ingrained. Then again recruiting in baseball is very HS focused, I don't believe soccer is that way. Have not done a ton of research into this but you take a School like Highland in Gilbert. So you are saying they are going to pick an Arsenal ASL2 player over an RSL ECNL or APL player? Maybe if the players are of equal quality they may take a member of their own club as they are more familiar but I would not think they are going to pass over an elite player for one of much lesser quality simply due to club allegiance. This would likely only impact your player if they are on the bubble.

    Can you show us any of the social media posts?
  12. I don't know about the entire valley, but in the East Valley Basha actively posts about Arsenal.
  13. tjinaz

    tjinaz Active Member

    Boy you are not kidding... tryout info for Arsenal right in the facebook page.

    Did a sample of others.. Chandler High, Highland, Desert Vista, Hamilton and no club stuff there. Basha is really blatant. I know the Chandler High and Hamilton coaches also coach for RSL too.
  14. They had other posts since taken down for specific age groups/gender
  15. Digital5

    Digital5 Member

    Putting the HS stuff aside, player movement is generally driven by player AND parent ambition and perceptions.
    If the ambition is to play in college (any level), the large clubs have the better resources. Larger clubs have established relationships with colleges, US scouts, etc. It's harder for the smaller clubs to have the type of reach that the large clubs have. It's just the way it is. That's why you see mergers, agreements, super secret behind the back door deals between clubs. Before everyone pipes in and says smaller clubs have players that go to college as well..yes, that is true, but it tends to be the exception, not the rule.

    There are outliers for every occasion but generally speaking, the bigger the club, the better the chances of a mid pack player getting seen by a program that could use their talents. Happens all the time. There are plenty of players on D2/D3 and NAIA rosters that are having a blast. With that said, there are plenty of D2/D3 rosters that would beat many D1 rosters. Don't sleep on the top NAIA rosters.

    Not every player on a top team for a large club is a blue chip player. Mid pack players in a smaller club may not be able to attend the showcase for exposure. Youth sports, especially soccer, can be brutal. It's a business and don't let anyone tell you any differently. If your child is exceptional, he/she will be discovered and they will be developed. If your child isn't "blue chip", then they may not get the level of development you think is appropriate. They may still benefit from playing for a larger club and getting an opportunity to attend national showcases or play/practice with a higher performing team.

    Half of the issues with youth sports are the parents (I'm a parent). We have blinders on and think our children will eventually be developed into the next Pele or Mia Hamm, and you can't tell us any different, especially if we are former athletes (even if it was badminton). Besides, soccer isn't cheap, but that's an entire issue unto itself. That's where the outrage needs to be directed to.
  16. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Active Member

    For those players in small clubs, success in college recruiting will depend on a few factors:

    1) The coach. Does he/she have connections with college coaches, established success with previous players moving on to play college/pro soccer? Will they attempt to play in college showcases?

    2) The player. Are they willing to aggressively promote themselves, reach out to the coaches and establish a dialogue? Do they have video of their games? Are they willing to work hard on their grades?

    It's not easy but it can be done.
    Digital5 likes this.
  17. al66

    al66 Active Member

    Player recruitment is a part of youth soccer, especially this time of year player rescramble is crazy. As a parent I want the best opportunity for my son, fortunately he had a good coach at the smaller club he played for, that saw the talent and potential my son had. After Playing for him far a couple of seasons, the coach actually told me I need to move him to a team at one of the big clubs in AZ and made some calls. This past season my son was playing on the top team at one big clubs in town and tearing it up. I was then contacted by a coach that he had been scouting my son while playing in Las Vegas and followed him locally. My son has since signed with Phoenix Rising Professional Academy for this up coming season. So as a parent I guess I’m guilty of the rescramble of players and I’m not sorry. Fortunately my son played for a good coach that developed him and wanted my son to move on to bigger and better things.
    Digital5 likes this.
  18. This isn’t about recruitment of the top players. The top kids should go to the top teams. This is about the kids being enticed over with promises of D1 scholarships, only to be placed on the 3rd team. It is about entire teams being called to Change clubs, only to be placed on 3 different teams (most at a lower level than they would be playing at if they had stayed together).
  19. Digital5

    Digital5 Member

    Not uncommon - hats off to the initial coach/club that understood realities and was looking out for him.

    As someone stated on here previously, if your ambition is college, it can be done without the assistance of the sexy letter leagues. Your kids drive/determination with parent support will get him/her there. Talent is talent and coaches really don't care where it comes from. The challenge is getting noticed - many avenues for that as they get older - youtube is your friend.

    With all of that said, much easier on you and your child if you are involved in a program that facilitates on your behalf.

    Is it bad when entire teams move for nefarious reasons, absolutely. No way to stop it and it will continue to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Moving clubs to position your child as best you can, nothing wrong with that. Parents are going to take care of their kids.

    Good luck in the upcoming season - the PR professional academy is well run, let's hope the season kicks off and they are able to pass along resources to the kids. His lessons learned will be invaluable.
    al66 likes this.
  20. Cityzen

    Cityzen New Member

    You are lucky that the coach didn’t try to selfishly keep your son and discourage him from moving but instead helped facilitate it. That is part of player development. No matter how good of a coach he may be, if this player is so much better than everyone on the team it doesn’t serve him to practice or play with them. Playing with players at or close to a similar level is also good for development.
    al66 likes this.

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