Arizona Premier League 2019 and beyond!

Discussion in 'Arizona Scene' started by aginaz, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. aginaz

    aginaz Active Member

    Well for instance 2004 boys, without DA, you have Rising ECNL as THE top team hands down.

    The remaining ECNL teams (RSL, Tucson and Arsenal) would fair EVENLY with the APL teams, with Arsenal probably being closer to the bottom - so not a lot of separation.

    I agree this group lost some kids to RSL DA (in UTAH) and maybe some to Barca and those trends are likely to continue.

    IMO, some kids are staying with ECNL still so that they CAN play High School.

    We'll see how this plays out over time...
     
  2. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Active Member

    I think we will have to watch Tucson and Arsenal. Tucson is a much smaller market to pull kids from vs the Valley up here. However over time they will start pulling in better players. That said they are just in a smaller market overall from which to pull from.

    Arsenal has never been much of a boys club. So they have to build out that side of their program. They are also in a strange location geographically. Essentially the far end of the valley which limits their recruitment some it would seem. So it will be interesting to see how they hold up ECNL wise vs Rising and others.

    And for sure there are kids playing ECNL because they want to play HS. And yes that Rising 04 boys ECNL team is good.

    Here is where things change going forward and it will affect the boys side tremendously.

    What you have to watch is the younger ages moving up and going forward. Many kids who are currently u16 and above for instance want to finish out their "career" with the team they have been with for years.

    It is the youngers moving into the u13 ages that the changes will start to be felt.

    What will happen is what happened starting years ago with the girls. What you saw was at the u14 (they didnt have u13 ECNL back then) age group, the best girls went to del Sol and Sereno.

    Today you have 2 ECNL, 2 DA, and 2 DPL teams available at any age group. The best are going first to DA or ECNL. So at a minimum the top players or most of the top players are moving to 4 teams per age group. RSL with their reach will slowly but surely get players into their DPL as well. That pulls a ton of girls out of APL/SL and severely weakens the quality of those leagues.

    You will see the same thing happen on the boys side now at the younger ages. At u13 their will be heavy movement into del Sol and RSL DA, and Rising, FC Tucson, and Arsenal ECNL If RSL gets additional DA age groups I bet they lose ECNL as a side note. Either way, that pulls a ton of good players out of APL/SL. You are talking 5 good teams worth no longer in APL.

    Will there still be some good players left in APL? Of course. We are however talking TEAMS...and the best teams will be the DA and ECNL boys teams going forward.
     
    GKdad likes this.
  3. whatithink

    whatithink Active Member

    RSL 04 ECNL were the top team last season. Rising are currently, but the movement of a small number of players makes a big difference.
     
  4. whatithink

    whatithink Active Member

    There's much more depth on the boys side, so agree for the girls and agree that the best teams are the DA/ECNL on the boys. That said, you could comfortably make a team on the boys side from players who are not currently DA/ECNL that would compete against any of and beat most of the top teams.
     
    Desert Hound likes this.
  5. Desert Hound

    Desert Hound Active Member

    I am sure you can/could find another 11 "all stars" from APL/SL and make a very good team. As stated not all good players are on DA/ECNL. However looking at teams there is a big difference.
     
    Not a Futballer likes this.
  6. Mot Ozzi

    Mot Ozzi New Member

    Yes, there are some very good players in APL SL and even open league, the difference with ECNL and DA teams is high quality from top to bottom. Something else has occurred to me. Conventional wisdom suggests that the most of the better players gravitate to clubs with these elite programs. But as kids get older, differences in physical development begin to wash out, and many of those who have always been behind, and who stick with it, can end up being good players.
     
    polly and Tiki-Taka-Freak like this.
  7. whatithink

    whatithink Active Member

    On the boys side, I have no doubt you could find 22 of your "all stars", i.e. 2 teams. DA is not about teams, it's about players from a US Soccer perspective. There are also boys teams in APL that would compete and possibly beat some of the "elite" state teams, but not the top "elite" team. There are players on the "elite" teams (roster of 18) who would not start on APL/SL teams.

    BTW IMV, on the boys side, if the "elite" players have not been offered Barca Academy or RSL Utah Academy by U16 (even that's late), then they are not elite players. They are very good obviously, but not elite.
     
  8. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Thank you for saying that! Some kids start puberty as early as 9 while others can go as late as 15 or 16 even. So, the physical development does play a factor. I can argue that early physical development could hurt players who do not work on their skills and just rely on their physical abilities because they are faster and stronger than the other kids. That all comes crashing down once everyone catches up. The sad part also that there could be kids out there that are technically gifted, but lack the physical ability to outrun or knock someone off the ball, so they quit not allowing their bodies to catch up. Early teens are a difficult time because everyone goes through the transition from child to adult at different rates. So, sticking with it and not giving up is very important. You are so right about this.
     
    polly and mbappe like this.
  9. al66

    al66 New Member

    Simply put, DA in Arizona is in its first year and there’s a lot of parents/kids who don’t know about it yet. In the next few years all the best players will be on DA teams. Even if families that can’t financially handle it, if the kid is good enough they will get scholarships to play. Their will be players who can’t handle the pressure or coming off the bench because they are not the best player on the team anymore, then will leave to other clubs where they are the best players and have no pressure. The DA system is set up for the best players to come together, compete and succeed no matter the financial status and anyone who says otherwise has a kid who was cut because they weren’t good enough to play at the DA level.
     
  10. tjinaz

    tjinaz Member

    We will see. Other states and areas that have had DA for awhile don't necessarily have the "best" players in DA. Many other factors involved. If it were that simple ECNL and DPL would not exist.
     
  11. al66

    al66 New Member

    Only DA clubs have DPL, they use it as their DA2 team to develop potential players. As for clubs who don’t have DA, they go the ECNL route because that’s the highest league they can get. But they want to be DA, example is RSL. This year they have both ECNL & DA, what team do you think the best players are on. Answer-DA! Now that they have DA they will probably drop the ECNL. So now ask yourself how watered down their teams are and they have a lot!
    In the 2007 age group alone they have teams playing DA, ECNL, ASL1, ASL2 & Open State league. The crazy thing is when they had tryouts for the DA teams, they only kept 3 kids for the ‘06 team and 1 for ‘07 team that had played for RSL the previous year and he was the directors son. They’re not promoting from within the club, so if you don’t think the best players in the state aren’t going to be playing on the DA teams, reread what I just wrote.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    mbappe likes this.
  12. Uber

    Uber New Member

    Wow you are drinking the DA kool-aide. Time will tell how Boys DA does in Arizona. On the girls side it is mixed. DA has the best 06 (Del Sol) ECNL has the best 05 and 04 (Rising) DA probably has the best 03 and 02.
     
  13. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Member

    12 players currently on the RSL 06 DA played for RSL North or South in 2018-2019. 5 players currently on the RSL 07 DA roster played with RSL in 2018-2019. Every club's goal is to promote from within but no one has a monopoly on developing talent. On the boys side, Boys DA don't have DPL so they use ECNL as their team to develop players. But I agree with your main points: The top male players will want to play DA and the level of players in DA are at a higher level than those in ECNL. MLS clubs only support Boys and Girls DA, not ECNL so the $$ and therefore resources, visibility, etc. will continue to increase in DA.
     
  14. al66

    al66 New Member

    Drinking the DA Kool-aide
    Have you actually seen these DA & ECNL PLAY AGAINST EACH OTHER?
     
  15. Uber

    Uber New Member

    Check the rosters and the US soccer experience. 06 has as many as Del Sol, 05 and 04 have way more call ups. If you use US soccer as the benchmark then my rankings are correct
     
  16. Uber

    Uber New Member

    If you look at the two top tournaments, surf cup and SilverLakes, ECNL and DA teams compete head to head. ECNL our performed DA in both. As I said before DA and ECNL are pretty even. DA has a slight advantage in the SW with depth in the leagues, but the top ECNL teams are just as good as any DA team. I would take the 04 and 05 rising team over any local DA team any day. Older girls and 06 girls I would have to go with DA. So yes I have seen ECNL play DA.
     
    4theluvofthegame likes this.
  17. Soccer Dad

    Soccer Dad Active Member

    I would take 02-01 Arsenal
     
  18. al66

    al66 New Member

    SoccerDadAz gets what I’m saying. I have a son who plays soccer, so what I’m saying only applies to boys DA. So give the RSL & SC DEL SOL DA a few more seasons and the best Boy players will migrate to one of these DA teams. I see it at practice already, it’s not uncommon to see a random player trying out during practice, mid season. In the next few seasons soccer in AZ is going have the best 36 boy players at each of the DA age groups playing for RSL & SC DEL SOL (18 players each) and those who don’t make the DA, but have potential will play for ECNL or the DA-2 teams in hopes of developing into a DA caliber player. All the rest will basically be playing for fun, recreational. DA gives every player that is talented the opportunity to succeed no matter the financial status or background, so pay to play is no longer a factor. If you’re good enough you’ll play DA, with the best. It’s a harsh reality, but it’s true and I think it’s great.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019 at 5:54 PM
    SoccerDadAZ likes this.
  19. mbappe

    mbappe New Member

    My son isn't old enough for DA yet, but al66 is spot on and I assume many other parents are thinking the way I am. As soon as my kid is old enough he'll be transitioning over to DA assuming he makes it, no sense in making the move until he is old enough.
     
    al66 likes this.
  20. SoccerDadAZ

    SoccerDadAZ Member

    Boys and Girls DA teams rarely play ECNL teams. At Surf Cup, the Boys DA typically have their own divisions playing DA and International clubs. In AZ the only Boys DA teams are U13, U14 (Del Sol and RSL-AZ) and Barca Residency Academy's U15, U16/17 and U18/19. If you take a look at the results vs. common opponents, that might give a better idea of team strength. For example, probably the top Boys ECNL U14, Rising, just recently drew against Del Sol's U14 2nd team in this past weekend's Arsenal Tournament. Rising's U15 Boys ECNL team played FC Golden State DA, a mid-tier DA team, in a tournament in June and lost 2-0. Rising's Girls U16 ECNL team drew against Solar SC's ECNL team (their 2nd team) in the spring.

    But one only has to look at the rosters of both the Boys and Girls National Teams. Most of the roster spots are filled by DA club players and U.S. players playing at International clubs (Mexico, Germany, Spain, England, etc).

    As many have mentioned on this thread, it is great to have DA, ECNL, and other platforms for all players to have options and reach their full potential. We shouldn't be debating about which club or platform is the best. We should always focus on what's best for each player.
     

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